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> I'm inclined to believe that storing enough DEF for correct dosing through a 10,000 mile service interval may not be feasible for a small car.

It is feasible and they already do it.



Do you mean VW? All the speculation I've read is that the DEF cars are also being recalled because they don't use the correct dosing.

Or do you mean the Chevy Cruze? They must have some strategy that works (so far).


What they are going to do during the recall is different for the various generations of cars.

Some of the VWs are getting bigger DEF tanks. For the cars that this isn't an option, I don't think VW has said exactly what they are going to do. They could just disable the cheating mode on the software. Fuel economy and performance would suck, but the emissions would be at acceptable levels.


I haven't heard anything about the latest agreement, other than that it will involve a buyback offer, unspecified fixes, and/or compensation. You don't have a source do you?

There's been a lot of speculation all along, will they retrofit DEF systems, will the cars just get super unreliable because the systems can't handle prolonged legal operation, etc.


No, I don't have a source I can point you to. I was talking to a Audi mechanic last weekend. He told me that 2015 cars were pretty much unaffected and will likely only get a firmware tweak.

2013-2014 cars need to hold 1/2 gallon more exhaust fluid and apparently that's doable (and also new firmware).

Older cars are a bigger problem and will likely get a combination of fixes but in the end, they are going to be louder, fuel hungry cars after getting "fixed".

The oldest cars will likely get owners a buy-back offer because the depreciated value is lower than the cost to fix.


>He told me that 2015 cars were pretty much unaffected and will likely only get a firmware tweak

And what exactly will this firmware tweak do? If it decreases performance or fuel economy, then that isn't acceptable. The customer bought the car because it advertised X horsepower and Y mpg; if the firmware tweak changes that, then that's false advertising and the company needs to refund their money in full.


VW is offering some compensation too. There are also a bunch of big lawsuits chugging along. If you aren't happy with the settlement VW is offering, join one of the lawsuits. Those are pretty much your only options.


Luckily, I don't own a VW, I'm just pointing out how this is a scam. If I were a VW customer, I'd be really pissed. I'm really glad I passed on VWs and bought a Mazda instead.

What's really stupid is that it sounds like they should be able to get the advertised power and economy with the required low emissions simply by using more DEF. I'm assuming the DEF liquid isn't too expensive here, but if they just made it so you needed to refill it every 1000 miles, that should solve the problem. Heck, why can't they just make it available at gas stations too?

Having this idiotic notion that only dealers should be able to refill the stuff, and that it needs to be done at 10k intervals, is what's making it impossible.

Why not require that cars must be able to carry enough fuel to drive 10,000 miles while they're at it? It makes as much sense.


OK thanks.




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