whenever i see parents struggling with issues like this, i wonder why everyone wanders into parenthood without any forethought, any preparation. its so frustrating to see people take their hands off the wheel and say "well, i have no control over this situation. i hope my kid turns out ok." people have this idea that you cant influence your kids. they send them to school where you have 0% control over what they see and do.
parents do prepare when it comes to finances and having a crib, but its the larger picture that is not considered in advance. nobody seems to look at how kids are raised now and think "this is completely broken" and then make a plan to deal with it. children are like any other animal, they need to be raised deliberately. if you spoil a dog, and dont train it, what kind of dog do you wind up with? what kind of people do you end up with when they are sucked into ipads while still in a stroller, and they are sent to schools that are little more than zoos being overseen by air-headed sorority girls? well, what a coincidence, you end up with the poorly adjusted and frustrated kind of person that seems to be more and more common these days. just because society says that everyone has to use social media doesnt mean you have to let your kid use social media. fuck society.
@joshribakoff, you're being disingenuous. You left out the important part of that quote:
> they need to be raised deliberately. if you spoil a dog, and dont train it, what kind of dog do you wind up with? what kind of people do you end up with when they are sucked into ipads while still in a stroller, and they are sent to schools that are little more than zoos being overseen by air-headed sorority girls?
That is succinct, true, and a shame. A shame, just like your hand-picking out a part of a sentence, in order to make the poster sound like an idiot is.
He omitted: in that, from his sentence. They are just like animals, in that....
And if you were to be truthful with yourself, you'd admit he's eerily correct in his observation.
Disciplining a kid like they are a dog just feels like a marginal step up from corporal punishment. Instead I believe in a more empathetic approach. I can teach a kid why its dangerous to walk into the street, no so with a dog, which can only learn via positive & negative associations, without understanding or communicating the reason why. A gold fish can be trained to swim through a hoop by giving a treat. A kid has more complex emotions & thought process. Also discipline is not the only principle you want to teach a kid. What about creativity? Self expression? If a 9 year old wants to write his own mine craft mod, I don't care if he is on his ipad at dinner time. Cultural change is inevitable why fight it. My parents gave me electronics kits, knex, lego mindstorms, I was programming at 12yrs old. I grew up a productive member of society. If your kids on their ipad too much maybe delete angry birds & install a math/learning game instead.
>I can teach a kid why its dangerous to walk into the street
Children are neurologically incapable of understanding a large proportion of the dangers they face. Toddlers simply can't understand the cause and effect of "run into street -> get run over". Younger children who lack a fully developed theory of mind can't understand the concept of lying. Younger teenagers often attempt suicide as a means of seeking attention, without fully understanding the finality of death. Older teenagers have a very limited ability to reason about more abstract risk behaviours like distracted driving or binge drinking.
Unless your child is extraordinarily precocious, some amount of "don't do that or there'll be trouble" will inevitably be necessary. Hell, adults often respond far better to simple conditioning than logical reasoning. Patiently explaining the risks of smoking was far less effective than simply stigmatising the behaviour. Everyone knows that they need to eat less and exercise more, but that knowledge has done practically nothing to stem the obesity epidemic. We can't expect children to understand that homework is a necessary investment in their future when most adults don't save enough for retirement.
Children need to be taught self-regulation, but it's unrealistic and unfair to burden them with the full responsibility of disciplining themselves. Rules and boundaries are a kindness, not a cruelty - they give children a safe space in which to learn and develop.
well I didn't ever like homework either. I failed classes because I was up all night programming. I hated homework because I was hungrier to work on something more interesting. Not because I didn't want to learn. I believe in letting people follow their calling. For some that means not wearing a seatbelt or becoming obese and that does not harm me. Toddlers is a different story. If a toddler throws a temper tantrum I believe in comforting. With an animal you'd lock it in a crate. I had behavior problems and the experts told my parents to give me more access to technology instead of take it away. It worked
there are things beneath the surface that must be set. the mind takes shape at certain levels during certain ages. if they take an unfortunate shape, the child will carry that burden with them forever. if you abuse a child, you can make this happen. it is universally accepted that childhood abuse can cause life long behavioral problems. what is not universally observed, however, is that child abuse has a kind of opposite. you can mold a young mind into being poorly adjusted and you can mold a young mind into being extraordinarily well adjusted.
not everything in life is conscious. in many situations that are new or ambiguous, a child will make a decision based on his or her disposition, his or her feeling. a well adjusted child has feelings about things that will help them. of course, those feelings and instincts dont guide all decisions, im not saying that.
and here is where our opinions intersect: the reason to control and form a child in their early development is because it provides a good foundation for the next step, which is self motivated learning. no child can learn anything unless they learn it themselves or if it is taught to them in an extreme way. by extreme, i mean that you take your kid aside and look him in the eye and you put on a face more serious and deadly than you have ever before and you say to him in a low voice "crossing the street without looking is not acceptable." those lessons should be few. what you want is to spark a chain reaction of learning by first teaching the child how to learn and then allowing them to build their knowledge on their own.
learning to learn comes naturally to some and not to others. being forced to learn complicated things forces one to learn how to learn. usually people get this in their twenties when they set a hard goal, like passing a chemistry or physics class in college. i believe that this can be done deliberately by the parent at a much earlier age.
so, my overall point is that a child must be raised deliberately.
>Disciplining a kid like they are a dog just feels like a marginal step up from corporal punishment. Instead I believe in a more empathetic approach.
This is an incredibly old fashioned view of dog training. Both science and actual practice have proven that, indeed, a more empathetic approach that focus on the positive side of behavior modification produces better and more consistent results. Indeed, this also translates to raising a kid, and is why physical punishment in the best case results in passiveness ("good behavior") and in many other cases, life long resentment.
parents do prepare when it comes to finances and having a crib, but its the larger picture that is not considered in advance. nobody seems to look at how kids are raised now and think "this is completely broken" and then make a plan to deal with it. children are like any other animal, they need to be raised deliberately. if you spoil a dog, and dont train it, what kind of dog do you wind up with? what kind of people do you end up with when they are sucked into ipads while still in a stroller, and they are sent to schools that are little more than zoos being overseen by air-headed sorority girls? well, what a coincidence, you end up with the poorly adjusted and frustrated kind of person that seems to be more and more common these days. just because society says that everyone has to use social media doesnt mean you have to let your kid use social media. fuck society.