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Thank you for the long comment.

It took me a while and I needed to move here to get a tiny feeling for the complexity of this issue. Before that, 'jewish' was a label that I had in the same mental box as 'christian', 'muslim', 'hindu' or whatever. Boy is that misleading.

So many things here in Israel are challenging my understanding, every day. It doesn't help that I'd describe myself as agnostic or atheist. I guess Jews are the only example (that I know of) of a group of people that claim to share religion, ancestors and culture. I wouldn't know how - for example - one could create a model of a secular state here. I wouldn't know where to separate culture from religion and I'm convinced that I'll never understand the idea of common ancestry / being descendants of the same tribes.

Maybe this intermingled religion/culture/ethnicity (if this is the right word?) is confusing more people, just like me. And maybe some people react with fear if they don't grasp a concept?



    I guess Jews are the only example (that I know of) 
    of a group of people that claim to share religion,
    ancestors and culture.
Japan (to some extent)?


They have at least two religions: Shinto and Buddhist.

I don't know how much following either of them gets today, but I do know that during the feudal period the two religions were associated very strongly with the upper castes (Buddhism) and the lower castes (Shinto).

I do know that religion is not an identity to the Japanese in the way Judaism is for Jews. I know people who simultaneously consider themselves Jewish and atheistic or agnostic. That seems bizarrely contradictory unless you understand that "Jewish" is both an ethnic identity and a religious identity, so even individuals who reject the religious part can still embrace the ethnic part.

Like the gp, I would be very interested to know of any other group that ties religion, ancestry, and culture together into a single unique identity the way Judaism does. I think that Persia under Zoroastrianism might have been like that, but the conversion to Islam ended that.


Interesting. I've to admit my ignorance again - no idea.

How 'religious' is Japan? I was baffled on the day I learned that you cannot marry without a ceremony with a Rabbi here if you're a Jew. In DE it's (all romance removed..) signing paperworks and optionally going to a church if you like that sort of thing. Christian ceremonies have no influence over your status though: You're married _iff_ you signed the paperwork, whether a priest held your hands or not. Here this seems to be different. And this is just one thing that confuses the hell out of this particular secular guy.

Don't want to bash something I don't understand. Consider this just a try to emphasize my confusion and venting some 'Boy are things different' steam.


This confuses (and infuriates) a lot of native Israelis too. This is more the result of pressure by orthodox interest groups and attempts to maintain status quo. Just another in a long and confusing list of factors shaping the Israeli and modern Jewish culture.




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