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I don't see the Windows 8 app store as a competitor to Steam though, in the same way that I don't see the Google Play store as a competitor to Steam. Steam already has a strong community knit directly into the gaming experience that I doubt Microsoft will be able to reproduce, if GFWL is any indication. And there's no way I'd pay a monthly fee like on Xbox Live.

Hell, Origin isn't even that threatening to Steam, and that's a directly analogous service.



If you've tried to use Games for Windows Live, it makes seppuku seems like an enjoyable thing to do after dinner.

The user experience of what should have been mission critical Microsoft products - from Windows Live for Games to Adcenter is horrible. Horrible to a degree that whoever is responsible for them either never cared or should have been left managing McDonalds. That's too bad.

Yes, nothing Microsoft has right now comes close to comparing with the Steam user experience. (EA's Steam copycat also sucks, Gamestop's purchase of Impulse leaves a lot of judgement questions as well.)


> If you've tried to use Games for Windows Live, it makes seppuku seems like an enjoyable thing to do after dinner.

Too right. My first experience of G4WL was GTA-IV. That experience is the reason I didn't bother reinstalling GTA-IV when I rebuilt my machine not long afterwards, and why I've not bought any games use/require G4WL since.

My games purchases since have all been through Steam, GoG, and Humble Bundles. Even games I might otherwise have paid full (or near full) price for have not been touched if they have G4WL anywhere near them.

Be careful when getting Games through Steam: there are some that still force you to faf around with G4WL (i.e. they will refuse to run if you don't) rather than having the option of using Steam's features instead for the same tasks (syncing of game saves and such).

The experience was irritating enough that when making a game buying decision I make a concerted effort to make sure I avoid a repeat in future. Compared to the Steam experience it, well, really didn't compare.

(I have some complaints with Steam too, nothing is perfect, but nothing that irritates to the point of stopping me using it to purchase and maintain games)


I think the problem is that the Microsoft store will be the only way to get software on Windows 8 Rt. Microsoft is essentially pulling an Apple and there is no way that is a net benefit for Valve or the community in general.

There are other problems with Windows 8, but I think the closed ARM version is a really big one.


Yeah but, Windows 8 itself is a train wreck. Seriously, who is going to upgrade to it? It's too different.

Nobody is going to go out of their way to buy it, the only installs it will get is as OEM's on new hardware.

And I bet even the OEMs will offer Windows 7 for as long as they can.

I think if users _have_ to have something different they will seriously consider OSX and Linux. One is more polished on better hardware for people who have money and want the best. The other is free for people who don't care.


As much as I wish this were true (I've been gunning for the MS downfall forever), I doubt it will be the case.

My (non-technical) girlfriend recently needed a reformat, so on a whim I installed the 8 RC to see what her reaction would be.

She loves it. It is, quite simply, the first Windows release that presents software in a friendly and usable way that allows the non-technical user to get just as much from a PC as they could from a Mac.

Difference drives the uptake of software, otherwise we'd still be on Windows 95. 8 is just as rock stable as 7, but faster, and with an interface that is more logical and easy to grasp. I see no reason why it won't be a huge success (besides some kind of major corporate-IT catastrophe).

Newell's comments are leveled at Microsoft's monopoly on software distribution for Windows RT, which may in fact cause a disruption much like the one he outlines. The consumer, however, will finally learn what the "flag button" on their keyboard is for.


Wow, this is the first positive reported use-case I've heard for Windows 8 "in the wild". Can anyone corroborate this from a non-technical user experience?


I think the lack of positive feedback on the blogoweb is due to the the degree that 8 is directed at non-technical users. Many HN'ers and the tech writers we read will be put off by the metaphorical down-talking of the start 'menu'.

I doubt any technical users will have any interest in Metro apps on PCs. The same features that make non-techies feel less affronted with interface elements will feel childish to experienced users. (Just take a look at the HN discussions surrounding the skeumorphic calendar app in Moutain Lion - its the same distaste, just to a lesser degree.)

And, if you don't get any benefit from the Metro apps or start 'menu', you really don't get much benefit out of 8.

Gabe is absolutely correct to offer Steam on Linux. Many technical Windows users who have invested in their PCs (read: many gamers) will use their distaste as an opportunity to try Ubuntu. People are always looking for something new, especially in regards to software.

None of this, I believe, will make 8 a business failure for MS.


I'd be hesitant to predict this sort of result. Vista was very weird for those of us used to XP, and was widely panned in a similar way as a train wreck -- but people started buying, certainly. Ubuntu's Unity desktop environment was new and surprising, but it seems to be holding up.

Comfort is only one of the huge driving factors in these sorts of scenarios. That Microsoft has given up the mantle of comfort in the name of pushing forward is probably a good thing. Had they stuck with comfort, I'd still have to support the nightmare that was IE5. ^_^ Now you see big companies turning to Apple in the hopes of not only seeming more urban and modern to the people they're recruiting, but also to hopefully keep a very standard set of features and UI: it is quite possible, if admittedly a little crazy-sounding, to imagine that in ten years or so the post-Jobs Apple will reverse places with the post-Gates Microsoft.

Ultimately, if you change others, and others change you, that is a building-block for love in the most general sense. The things that we are fanatical about are the programming languages that really changed our lives, the operating systems that we put in the effort to understand and master, the technologies which altered our workflows and our day-to-day living. Love is always transformative, and Microsoft was getting too stagnant to be loved. Only time can tell whether their present changes will bring back some of that fanaticism which is sorely lacking.


>One is more polished on better hardware for people who have the money and want the best.

Is this at all true? If you spent an identical sum of money on a PC would you not get better hardware?


Depends on what you mean by better hardware. The specs will probably be better, I have a Thinkpad and it would have cost me twice as much for an equivalent Macbook. That said, the build quality of the Thinkpad isn't even close to the MacBook, it just depends on what's important to you. For me, an aluminium case isn't worth $1500, and I don't really want to be seen with an Apple product anyway :)


Well with the thinkpads and other business-centric laptops you tend to get the advantage of modularity as well. Keyboards, screens, hard drives, RAM, batteries, and optical drives can all be replaced fairly easily on Dell Latitudes and Lenovo Thinkpads. (The ones I've had at least.) On a Macbook, replacing the RAM and hard drive are the only ones I know to be fairly simple.


It just doesn't exit. I've been shopping to a windows laptop for ages and really nothing is as good as what apple is offering.


> I think if users _have_ to have something different they will seriously consider OSX and Linux. One is more polished on better hardware for people who have money and want the best. The other is free for people who don't care.

I use Linux and I care, probably too much, about it.


I would love to take the plunge but need photoshop. Gimp is a long way behind.


Steam isnt allowed on Metro, nor can it sell metro based/integrated games.

And the low and midrange win8 devices are all going to be ARM/Metro only.

So, Steam on Windows has no future. Nor does origin. Welcome to the consolification of all consumer computing devices.


I don't know, but Xbox Live has 40m users and Steam has 10m (numbers from google search). Microsoft has a shot at this if they do it right, since it opens doors for apps too. We'll see. Best thing Microsoft could have done was to buy steam outright or venture with Valve. Something tells me that ship has sailed.




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